>> gretchen: tomorrow, bob massi will help you with your real estate concerns, michelle malkin and that fellow georgia line. >> brian: if you have to run from the tv, run to the radio now. kilmeade and friends is set to take off. >> steve: if you would like more information about anything you saw on today's show, go to our web site, chances are, it will be there. see you tomorrow. bill: we start now with a fox news alert. where a deadly shooting rampage at a mall packed with holiday shoppers. what you're watching there is new cell phone video showing eerie reaction led out of stores with hand in the air after a man wearing

a white mask opened fire. there is no motive we know. this is place filled with christmas cheer is now a crime scene. goods morning. well come to the breaking news coverage on "america's newsroom." i'm bill hemmer. nice to see you, martha. terrible story. martha: terrible images. watching people walking out with hands over their heads. good morning, everybody, i'm martha maccallum. here's the story. the shooter killed two people before killing himself. another victim we know this morning remains in critical condition. she is fighting for her life at this a witness saying quote, he had the look of death in his eye. bill: we're also hearing more about the terrifying moments inside the mall. people ducking for cover. hiding in store aisles and shielding their young children. >> my friend was already on the ground, you know, crawling toward the doors. i heard two more shots. i jump on the ground crawling toward the door. i heard this guy yell, get on the ground, get on the ground a couple times.

i got up and i just started running. bill: it is believed the gunman entered the popular mall through the macy's department store before going on his rampage in a food court. dan springer live from the mall. what more are we learning? >> reporter: bill, we expect to learn a lot more later on today when police hold a news conference at 10:00 local time. they say they have made a positive identification or tent at this identification. but they will not release the identity to the media until they're 100% sure. he is described as a white male, apparently wearing camouflage, body armour and hockey mask. jason-style hockey mask walking through the mall methodically shooting at people. people heard two initial gunshots and 15 or 18 more after that. there were people all over this mall obviously just two weeks before christmas. shoppers, employees. maybe as many as 10,000,

12,000 people inside. the santa, mall santa was there. we understand he had a lineup outside of his area there. one child apparently on his lap began when the shooting began. hear what the mall santa had to say. >> when i heard 18 more shots i decided it was semiautomatic hit the floor. my employees scattered and got out of there. because when i got up there was nobody there but me. i didn't know whether i should move or not. >> reporter: this is a very large mall. just outside of part land in a suburb of clack a mass. in it was packed with people two weeks before christmas. the only good news the person who was shot, the survivor is expected to survive. 18-year-old girl who was shot and she is said to be in serious condition but again is expected to survive and is talking to parents. this remains a crime scene.

police have it closed down. we'll process the scene and learn more and about the motive who this guy was later on today, bill. bill: a lot of questions as you rightly point out. dan springer live in portland, oregon. 1:00 press conference, one eastern time should reveal a lot of information we do not have answers for just yet. martha: we're waiting for this. look at this. terrified shoppers taking cover as they huddled in a pet store inside this mall at a nearby gamestop, one worker knew immediately that something was definitely wrong, took quick action to make sure everybody inside that store was safe. >> anybody that was in our store we closed the gate at that point. we weren't opening it. we weren't letting anyone in or out at that point until we knew what else was going on. >> as soon as i heard more shots happened i knew at that point we needed to lock up to get everybody back of the store. martha: police commended

citizen heroes. we're hearing so many stories of people looking out for each other, protecting each other in this situation. the shoppers, some who happened to be health care workers jumped right in to help out those injured on the scene. bill: also those who could not find shelter inside. they were looking for any way to get out of there. they made a run for it outside, including this guy. >> obviously you guys came across the street here. you're not able to leave right now. your car is in there. >> we tried getting to our car but everyone started running towards us saying he was outside or close by. we came across here because we wanted to be safe. >> i didn't feel safe sitting right there. we just came across the street. >> people said start running. we decided across the street would be safer distance. bill: get this. police say there were thousands of people inside the mall at the time. thousands. several started running as soon as they heard gunfire creating mass panic, not only inside but outside as well as you can imagine. martha: the mall is a huge place. police believe as bill was

just saying that some 10,000 people were in that mall. it is the heat of the christmas shopping season. so why wouldn't it be parked right? besides macy's the mall has a nordstrom and jcpenney there as big ainge cores to that mall. it is heavily populated area. 270,000 people live in five mile radius. bill: we'll have more coverage throughout the day. we have someone who was there during the horrifying deal. we'll talk to the sheriff in charge of the investigation. he has a lot of information. one of the key points in all this apparently this guy wearing the white mask that dan springer so rightly described said i'm the shooter before he opened fire. martha: righters what was the motivation? what was his mind set. it was definitely one for terror and out for killing. martha: one of the witnesses said they heard him say that line, i am the shooter. before he finished sentence

they heard gunfire ringing out in the mall. they saw people running and everybody starting tearing out of the place. we'll hear from the sheriff and eyewitness coming up in a little while. let's turn our attention to this huge story. there is growing outrage after north korea successfully launched a long range rocket. they said they were parts of a peaceful program. they were cheering success of science and technology, dancing in the streets of north korea. members of the international community are not so sure they're so enthusiastic about this. james piper is in bangkok, thailand. what is the reaction across asia to this launch, david? >> reporter: u.s. allies, japan, south korea condemn the action. philippines, where the rocket landed 200 miles off its shore protested. japan is particularly upset because it flew over the

okinawa islands where there is large u.s. presence. south korea is calling for more u.s. sanctions. the most important, china, they are saying want a moderate and prudent response. may well go to the u.n. security council this morning. back to you. martha: so how important is it for north korea's missile regime, missile program i should say they were able to launch this weapon successfully? they have seen several failures in the past? >> reporter: well it is a major scientific achievement if you look at it on that level even though a lot of their people are starving in the country. from what the experts are saying they're still a long way off from being able to fire a ballistic missile with a nuclear warhead. there is problems with the heat from reentry, things like that. but it's, they are moving towards that ballistic missile which could threaten in the future the u.s. mainland. but it does seem a political success for the new leader, kim jong-un, this young new leader. he pushed for this rocket to

be tested and for once it has been successful. back to you. martha: david, thank you very much. we'll have more on that coming up later. bill: certainly will. david mentioned, north korea made several launch attempts in the past but this is the first time the regime has successfully carried one out. in total north korea reportedly has more than 800 ballistic missiles and has an array of short, intermediate range missile systems. we'll talk in a moment how that changes the game. martha: sure does. no surprise that launch has really gotten the world's attention. could it be a game-changer in international relations with this rogue regime? we'll examine that question. bill: also this fight over union rights turns down right nasty. protesters storming the statehouse while inside a democratic lawmaker says, "there will be blood.". as union supporters call out the governor signing the bill into law. >> he is so out of touch with michigan's men and women and challenges working

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martha: well the pope tweets it attorneys out as of today. his holiness finding a new way to reach out to his followers 140 characters at a time. in his first week pope benedict says this, quote, dear friends, i'm pleased to get in touch with you through twitter. thank you for your generous response. i bless all of you from my heart. we hear the pope has a million followers worldwide and has answered a question on faith. if he retweet the pope you might pick up a few. bill: what happens if the pope follows you? as a catholic is that a good thing or are we running for hills? does that make it a good christmas or not? martha: be a lot more careful about what you put in there. bill: it is the season, folks. martha: that's right. bill: new controversy in

michigan. the 24th right-to-work state in the u.s. democratic state representative speaking on the statehouse floor warning violence will come as a result of this. >> we're going to pass something that will undo 100 years of labor relations. and there will be blood, there will be repercussions. bill: he woos right about that, literally there was blood. [shouting] things sure did get ugly when protesters start to tear down a tent put up by a pro-right to work group called americans for prosperity. according to report, writer and fox news contributor steven crowley was arguing with them, was punched in the face and threatened and had a chipped tooth. state senator from michigan is with me. good morning to you. >> good morning. bill: what do you make of the reaction so far, there

will be blood? >> i think that is unfortunate metaphor. i find that language very insightful. we outside the capitol had a lansing landmark, clint, he owns a small business at the hot dog stand and they totally, also decimated his business. totally ripped apart his hot dog stand and as you saw, the pictures of the tent. bill: we'll see whether or not more of this continues today. but i mean yesterday, really it was national headlines. but here's what the president says about this new law. they say they call them right to work laws. he says they don't have anything to do with economics. it is all about politics. he continues. what they're really talking about they're giving you the right to work for less money. what do you think about that? >> i think that is just totally inaccurate. first of all this does not affect collective bargaining rights at all. this is all about workers choice and worker freedom. 17% of the michigan's workforce is unionized today. after this law is signed,

17% of michigan workers will be unionized. the key is if they decide to join the union. this is all about freedom of choice and workers empowerment. bill: so what you're saying then, i want to be clear on this, the law only says that if you're a nonunion employee now longer have to give money to support financially the union? is that what it says? >> that's exactly correct. they have the freedom to choose whether or not to belong to a union. if they find value in their union, they are free to choose to do that. if they do not find value in that, union, they are likewise not allowed to, as a condition of employment, have to belong to a union. bill: how many years has this previous law been on the books? >> it's been on since i, years. i mean --. bill: 1960s? 1950s? >> i don't know the exact law. ever since i've been alive it's been on the books. bill: the reason i ask that, you know what happened in

wisconsin. they did something similar. they were successful. indiana same story. ohio, not so much. they went the same route michigan did. year later it was put on the ballot as referendum and it was thrown out of the will this meet the same fate? >> i sure hope not. i sure hope that michigan comes together after this and realizes we're all in this. it is all about jobs and being competitive. not only with the world but also our neighboring states. indiana has a right to work law. a couple of months ago, about a year ago. and they found that 7 -- 74 new projects were put on the books as a result because they have a great working environment and that is first till to create jobs. bill: what i'm reading here this is considered an appropriations bill in michigan and by law you can not challenge that in a referendum. we'll see whether or not that's the case based on what the judges say. but today what can you say about the future economy for michigan if this law stands? >> i think michigan's economy, that brighter days

are ahead. i think this is a step in the right direction for jobs. i think it makes an open sign for michigan businesses and then also those businesses that want to look to locate in michigan. we're the automobile manufacturer of the world and we need to have a open sign on that. i think this is also a step that we will not take workers rights for granted. it is all about worker empowerment and worker choice. bill: it is an economic earthquake in michigan. thank you for your time. >> thank you very much. bill: all right. 18 past the hour. martha. martha: there are some new concerns about a hidden fee that is just coming to light to pay for obamacare. the $25 billion price tag on this little-known tax will affect everyone of us. we'll tell you what it is. bill: we'll get back to this tragic mall shooting in oregon. the height of the mall shopping season. inside the mind of a shooter and an update from police on a possible motive this story. >> for all of us the mall is

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martha: one of the big questions about this mall shooting story is the identity of this gunman who walked into a crowded oregon malice night, and just opened fire on thousands of holiday shoppers who were just, you know, out there to do their shopping and have a nice evening. all of sudden they saw this man wearing dark clothing and a hockey mask like something out of a horror movie. terrified shoppers recall the frighting moments after they started to hear these gunshots. >> about the third or fourth time we started moving our way to the back and the clerks at build-a-bear came over and started moving us

all to the back. >> everyone was kind of tripping over each other. i bumped into people and they were running for their lives. martha: boy, what a frightening scene that was. you can see, look at personnel that filed in there, swat teams. we're joined by dr. keith ablow, forensic psychiatrist and fox news contributor. keith, well come. my kids went off to the malice night to do shopping with their friends. this is the kind of thing that strikes terror in the hearts of people. and you wonder, a, about the identity of this person and, what you know about his profile just based on what he did so far. we don't know who he is. >> we don't know who he is. likely someone will turn out to be either laboring with a significant major mental illness such a delusion has set in which we've seen before where someone thinks i'm saving the whole world, or someone feeling disempowered in his life because really when you dress up in this way and in military garb and take a gun,

you're saying how really weak you feel in other aspects of your existence. martha: yeah. >> that's why these people go into these settings dressed as soldiers. you would be less noticeable dressed in your regular street garb. martha: they don't want to be incon pickous. they want it to be dramatic. they want it to be a scene. your mind goes back to james holmes in the movie theater who dressed like a character. this guy had a hockey mask on which is familiar terror movie image. >> it is. in a terrible way empowering. also what i predict as we trace the steps here that we'll find that this is somebody for whom there were signs. martha: we know from holmes for sure. >> we'll see it again. martha: in terms of what he said, the reports he said, i am shooter, and then he started firing which is interesting like a third person reference. he saying, i am the shooter,

because that is way he will be referred to moments from then. >> yeah, absolutely. all the more reason to think this is somebody who is ready and anxious to abandon the trappings of his weakness, his failings, all the ways which he has come up short again and again. perhaps depression has set in. we'll have to see. but listen, the other risk factor here is that too many people are living these third person existences and it's a huge leap from fictional facebook profiles to this. yet they're distant cousins. this ability to slip the binding of your own existence to care not for anyone or the suffering you inflict, that is a lack of empathy. that is very widd right now. martha: frightening, truly. >> it is very frightening. martha: we'll learn more about who this man is but you shed some light on the qualities that may be in his character. dr. keith ablow, thanks very much. >> you too, martha. martha: a sad note.

bill, back to you. bill: trooge did i at christmastime. opening fire at packed shopping mall. we'll get an update from the sheriff's department. we have recording of police talking to one another during the shooting. you will hear that: chilling sca busy new york street about a man who was shot to death a few blocks from here. who would commit a gruesome midday crime in the city and what was his connection to the victim? we'll be right back. >> our hearts are very hurt right now. so we're, you know, we're trying to deal with the grief of. of a loss of a son, of the loss of a father and the loss of a brother and it is just a devastating event right now. ♪

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bill: we mentioned this right before the break. this is an audio recording of the scanner activity that was taking place between a number of different police officers while the shooting was taking place inside this enormous shopping mall just outside of portland, with 10,000 people inside the mall at the time. let's have a listen to this right now. >> just confirming we have an active shooter? >> yeah. there is one person saying there's a man with a rifle and he is still shooting people. >> we're out here on foot

and people are bailing out like crazy from everywhere. bill: we'll get more of that throughout the morning here and really captures the moment and the emotions. so many shoppers confused. you can imagine what police are going through to keep everybody calm and get them out safely. the mall is closed as you can imagine. they are getting more evidence. we'll hear from the sheriff and his department next. martha: joining us is the undersheriff, matt ellington from the clack a mass sheriff's department. good to have you >> thanks for having me on this morning. >> talk about the investigation. we heard from eyewitnesses on the scene that he had a hockey mask on. that he carried a rifle. that he said, i am the shooter, before he started firing. what do we know today that we don't know last night? >> first of all i like to say our thoughts and prayers go out to the families of

the victims as well as the one surviving victim who is currently at the hospital. what we know today is that we did have a lone gunman went into the clackamas town center at 3:29 p.m. west coast time. we had officers on scene within a minute. we received assistance from local, state and federal law enforcement agencies. well over 100 officers on the scene. within 22 minutes we had figured out that we had two deceased victims. one is still surviving as well as the gunman who died of an apparent self-inflicted gunshot wound. martha: when do you expect to release the identity of this man? >> we expect to do that within the next, approximately three hours. we want to protect the integrity of the investigation at this point because it is still ongoing and as far as releasing the names of the victims, we

just want to allow the family to have time to notify other family members. what i can tell you though, we did recover a rifle from the scene. as you know there were reports that this person was wearing a hockey mask. we did recover a mask very similar to that. and we also, although it is early in the investigation, i can tell you that we have no apparent connection between the victims and the shooter. martha: did he have any connection to this mall? did he ever work there? >> at this point we don't have any information that would lead us to believe that. martha: you know, in terms of what you're looking at and this, you know, the crime scene, can you confirm that it was one rifle? was he armed in any other way? did he have any other kinds of weapons on him? >> we only recovered one rifle at the scene. so at this point i do not have any indication that he had any other weapons with him. martha: there was a report that the rifle jammed and

that that might have been, good news, if there is any in this story. can you confirm that? >> i can't confirm that. it's speculation at this point. it is entirely possible that that did happen. so, if it did and prevented other people from being victims, you know we're certainly thankful for that. is that something you can determine in your investigation from the ballistics, from the weapon itself? >> it's certainly entirely possible that we can, once we have time to do a forensic analysis of the weapon and evidence we're gathering from the scene. in fact we're still gathering from the scene right now. martha: obviously, you know, notifying family members is part of the process. have his family members been notified? have you had contact with anyone related to him who might shed light on what happened here? >> we still have investigators working on that right now, to track down family members of the suspects. martha: you know, we're told

that members of the police department there have trained inside this mall for this kind of an event. >> yes, actually we have. we worked with local law enforcement partners from the city agencies as well as state police for this type of event. we have actually trained at that mall. we did it earlier this year. we worked with mall security on lockdown protocols. thankfully all of those were followed and we believe strongly that that probably kept the suspect from accessing more victims. martha: yeah. you know, we watched this process play out. in terms of the training we saw people walking out with their hands above their heads and, in the moments that you're not sure who the actual shooter is, how long did that process take for your folks on the ground there before they knew they had the guy and there was only one guy? >> well, as i mentioned before, within 22 minutes we had located the shooter who

was deceased. but that is one of the things, that, you know, is difficult for us when we have, you know, in this case upwards of 10,000 people trying to in a building trying to identify which one is the shooter. martha: we're watching video of people walking through here. it looks as though obviously they're terrified. it looks as though it happened in a fairly orderly way. as you look back at this and think about the training that you did for this, what did you learn from the actual event here? >> well, you know, we're going to go back later once this investigation is complete and debrief it and find out, you know, what things went well. what things we can improve on. but i can tell you that we are tell thankful that we prepared for an event like this and we were trained and we trained. martha: absolutely. just to confirm before i let you go, you expect to announce the identity of this person over the next

couple of hours, did say? >> yeah. approximately about 10:00 p.m. west coast time, i'm sorry, 10:00 a.m. west coast time we anticipate having a press conference where we will release the names of the victims as well as the suspect. martha: all right. undersheriff matt ellington, our credit and thanks go to you for the work your folks did on the ground there and loss of those three lives including the shooter and we hope, all of us that the woman who is in serious condition at the hospital is able to recover well from all of this. thank you so much for being with us this morning and let you get back to your work. >> thank you. bill: at the top of the hour we'll talk to an eyewitness on the scene there. remarkable, the fact that the police trained at this mall for an incident just like this. all the communities across america, the areas where they train, hoping for what turned out to be a reality in portland, does not happen in their community 1.4

million square feet, with 10,000 people inside at the time, this is an absolute miracle we're not talking about more casualties at moment. other than the two and plus the gunman and --. martha: we'll learn whether or not from the investigation whether or not the gun jammed or whether he got scared and thought somebody was about to catch him when he took his own life. all of those details sadly are probably what we'll learn. bill: your point too is quite right about the cell phone video we're seeing how orderly people were walking out calmly without much of a sound. martha: you see some times on the news over the last several years that, you know, people almost have trained for these events by watching these things play out. bill: almost in your mind. martha: across the country. that is tragic and in some ways and i guess helpful in others when these kind of things happen. bill: that is one of our big breaking news moments of the morning. here is another one. north korea is back at it, people, launching a long-range missile in a defiant move against its neighbors, against the united states.

what it means for its nuclear ambitions and how should washington respond?

martha: we are continuing to learn more about what happened on the scene at the clackamas mall in portland, oregon last night. we have new sound that has just come in of the police scanner from this awful, awful, horrendous shooting last night. let's listen to some of that. >> responding here to handle the slow clear of the mall. so right now we our priority to locate any additional victims we have in there and help fire get them out. >> we have a four-man fire team, second floor, macy's homestore and they need directions to victims.

>> from inside the jcpenney's. if there is not a problem with that we'll let them go out the east door that we're watching. martha: frightening for those people in there shopping and obviously the loss of life. your hearts go out to those families and you watch what a huge response there was to this. helicopters, swat teams that swept in there to try to stop what was an action and identify that killer. we'll have an eyewitness that will speak to us a little while from now. the sheriff as well joins us as this story continues to unfold. we'll learn more in a few minutes. bill: one of the eyewitnesses said he wasn't running. he was walking so slow. he dropped the thing used to load bullets and slowly picked it up to put back in the gun. everyone has a story. we'll have more at the top of the hour. we have this, folks. disturbing developments out

of north korea. the regime has made good on its promise and its threat to up its missile program. now successfully launching a long range rocket. here you see fireworks and a parade set up to sell operate the launch. this move is setting off urgent alarm bells on the region and here at home. we have former deputy vice president for national security affairs. steven, good good morning to you. >> good morning, bill. bill: you told our producers this demonstrate ad significant leap in its long-range missile capability, meaning north korea. explain. >> correct. as you rightly noted when we last discussed this, north korea's recent tests have really failed to go very far at all. this is the first time they have demonstrated an ability to reach significant distance. there is some details to clarify exactly how many stages effectively were executed in this particular test of a three-stage launch device. this was meant allegedly to demonstrate the ability to put a satellite into orbit. there has been no discussion of the satellite however.

bill: they say they launched a satellite successfully, whether or not that is true is the story, correct? >> correct. bill: you believe the initial white house reaction has been appropriate. explain that. >> i do believe it's appropriate. they said this is provocative. it is threatening the one caveat i put on it, they described this as a threat to regional security. i see this more broadly as a threat to international security because the proliferation networks so closely tied to north korea go directly into key hot spots in the middle east. bill: let's go to the map and show our viewers what we believe we know what happened here, okay? we believe it was launched from the, from the east coast of north korea. remnants of the rocket came down in at least two places we've been able to track. one here in the yellow sea just off the coast of south korea. another one down here in the philippine sea. that is the course we are examining. advance it one frame here. we showed our viewers this last week, stephen, as you

recall. here is north korea. here is coast of japan. here off to the east, let me change the color here so we can see it a bit better. here is japan. here is the coast of alaska. hawaii would be over in this area. a range of 5 to 6,000 kilometers. that is about 3600 miles. that still does not reach hawaii. it would however reach the western coast of alaska because these are the outer bands of range we do believe they're trying to accomplish. have they been able to get close, even to this area here when you see some of the remnants drop here in the philippines, steve? >> i think what we have to say is this is significant forward leap for them well beyond what previous tests accomplished. i think it would be a mistake on our part to assume that future leaps forward are in the distant future only. they seem to aggressively pursued a vansment here. kim jong-un, the new young

leader, succeeded where his father has failed. it is significant propaganda today victory. they're moving forward as one of the most sanctioned countries. bill: even with all the sanctions they pulled this off. they tried for years to make this happen and they have. two critical points we need to point out here. it is yet to develop a nuclear warhead small enough to fit on top of one of these missiles. that's a big deal. the other point is it has not tested a reentry vehicle that can with stand the heat of the atmosphere. so how effective today, steve? >> i think what it is, you're absolutely correct, they have not finished demonstrating a full capability to deliver this lethal capability at great distance. but unfortunately for us, by the time they have demonstrated that capability to a degree it is too late to negotiate with our allies or others a way to block them. what we really need now to insure the united states and

others don't return to failed negotiating strategies of the past. recognize we have a real grave concern and we need a different approach. bill: what north korea wants to face-to-face, one-on-one. they have always sought that. they see themselves as being equal to the united states of america. and if you give them that, you give them a huge boost. we'll see how japan, china, russia, south korea reacts now. stephen yates, thank you. >> thank you. bill: to viewers at home, hemmer@foxnews.com is the e-mail. on twitter shoot a tweet to @billhemmer, because you asked, bya. we'll see where this goes next. martha: they said they had to pass the health care law and find the details in it and be so pleased the way it will work. now we know there is hidden fee in the health care law. i will have to pay it. it is not pocket change actually. bill: all of us, right? martha: yep. bill: a key suspect in the murder of border patrol agent brian terry will be sentenced later today.

terry's family, as you can imagine they are watching and they are reacting already. >> they chose to take the shopping list of deadly weapons. .50 caliber sniper rifles, ak-47s, m-16s. and go shopping for the drug cartels. lower cholesterol, how does it work? you just he to eat it as part of your heart healthy diet. step 1. eat the soup. all those veggies and beans, that's what may help lower your cholesterol and -- well that's easy [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup. tomato, obviously. haha. there's more than that though, there's a kick to it. wahlalalalallala! smooth, but crisp. it's kind of like drinking a food that's a drink, or a drink that's a food, woooooh! [ male announcer ] taste it and describe the indescribable. could've had a v8.

bill: we have new surveillance video. these are images you rarely see that could hold clues who carried out a brazen shooting. a murder in the heart of is that correct? yesterday afternoon. they suspect the victim, brandon woodard, was lured to the scene and was ambushed what looks like professional hit. here are the images. surveillance screen left. that is the gunman. police die seconding the video. the gunman arrived 30

minutes before woodard, pacing as he waited. before pulling out his gun and shooting woodard execution-style. this is the last frame police released because the rest of it too gruesome to show. this happened near popular midtown tourist attractions and shops in broad daylight this time of year. there are thousands of people on the sidewalks of new york city. martha: all right. let's switch our attention over to this now because hidden in the new obamacare law is a fee that will be passed on to millions of americans as part of the law. it's a $63 per person fee and it kicks in 2013. just a little more than 12 months away right now. the fee is meant to help cover the people who have preexisting conditions. that is part of the thing that everybody is so pleased about, the preexisting conditions will be covered but of course everything has to be paid for. that will cost every single

individual $63 a year. now the obama administration says that the fee will only be temporary. that it will phase out in 2017 because of all savings will be enjoyed by the health care plan overall. unless of course congress decides to extend it which they usually do, right? matt mccall joins me, president of the penn financial group. 63 bucks a head. that is not pocket change. >> no it's not. a lot of people say, what is $63. i spend that on dinner or a christmas present. what they don't realize multiply that by everybody out there that becomes a very, very large number. martha: right. >> as you mentioned a moment ago everybody has to pay for something. this will get passed down to employers which then will most likely pass it down to employees. most employers are trying to cut margins as much as possible to try to make them. when it comes to end of the day, you know what, this is part of obamacare. nothing i can do about it. it will be passed on to you. that will probably hurt wages of you and i.

$63 will probably not change anybody's life. but when that is multiplied in economic environment where consumers are struggling, consumers make up 75% of the growth that means a lot. martha: a lot of taxes are kicking in automatically. there is so much focus on fiscal cliff and bush tax cuts that would expire. you have investment tax. this tax. three different ones. medicare surtax, that will be taken, everybody's taxes are going up no matter what happens, right? >> they're going up through obamacare. throw the fiscal cliff which could potentially raise taxes dramatically. that is big reason we see a lot of consumers aren't spending as much. a lot of companies are not hiring. you're not seeing unemployment fall. we don't know. this $63 again doesn't sound like a lot of money. i'm not going to be surprised next couple years if we see a lot more of these fees really sneaking up on us. i love the administration, say most likely will go away

unless congress extends it. how much do we see it could end up being twice as much. martha: you can't see congress going, oh, my gosh, 2017, time to bring back the $63, it's done, not going to happen? thinking around the holiday thinking but know that will not happen. martha: anyone can find an example where congress said, you know what, we shouldn't have this money anymore, please tweet me @marthamaccallum. remind me. that will be inspiring moment. matt, thank you. you're busy this time of year. everybody is doing everything they can to avoid changes at the beginning of the year. good to see you. >> thanks. bill: time is running out. 2 1/2 weeks, folks. back to the horror of the holiday. we'll talk to a person who was inside the clackamas town center mall when the killing started. >> my friend was already on the ground crawling towards the doors. i heard two more shots. i jump on the ground, crawling toward the doors. i heard this guy yell get on the ground, get on the

ground a couple times. i got up, and i just started running.

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martha: fox news alert, we are moments away right now from a news conference from house speaker john boehner speaking immediately following a closed door meeting with top republicans, and guest what they are talking about, the fiscal cliff, are we getting closer? is there movement in the negotiations? there seems to be signs of that. that's how we get started in the brand-new hour of "america's newsroom" on wednesday. i'm martha maccallum. bill: i'm bill hemmer. today's remarks come a day after a speech on the floor of the house. here is some of what the speaker had to say about where we are in his view at the moment. >> we are still waiting for the white house to identify what spending cuts the president is willing to make as part of the balanced approach that he promised the american people. where are the president's spending cuts? the longer the white house slow

walks this process the closer our economy gets to the fiscal cliff. martha: so what is really going on in this negotiating right now? where are both sides? the white house continues to insist that it is republicans who have yet to offer any detailed proposal to themment when speaker john boehner comes to the microphone moments from now, in every one of these you can pick up a little bit of the tea leaves and figure out where this might be going. as soon as john boehner walks in front of that podium we'll want to listen to every word and see fit gives us any indication of where we are right now. bill: we are getting brand-new audio now of the police chatter inside of a busy mall in organ after a masked gunman opened fire. have a listen here. >> paramedics in here you want to get them out get them out. i'd say as many people out as possible. they are on their way out of the food court.

that goes for guys that are uniformed officers, spread out. if you've got nothing to do then leave, please. >> i've got a witness at my location, where do i need to send him? he saw the shooter. >> witnesses are to go to the parking garage. >> i'm ready for people that are employees that are hiding, that if they can see a cop at a strong point can they make contact with that cop and we'll make arrangements to get them out. bill: that was part of what we were picking up last pour. alexis winterhower is only 18 years old. she has gone to the mall many times. interest is great to see you, i'm sure your parents feel the same way. take us inside the mall at that moment. where were you and what do you remember? >> good morning.

i was downstairs towards the end of the mall in a mayor salon getting my hair done. shaoef was in thshe was in the middle of blow drying my hair and we heard a very loud noise, sounded like the roof was falling through or something large was falling over and metal was khrat terg. i clattering. she turned off the blow drier and said, it sounded like a gun is that a gun? we saw people scattering all around, that's when we realized we had to get out. we didn't know where the shooter was, if there were multiple of them. we got out as fast as we could, we went to the parking lot and hid behind a dumpster. bill: it is a remarkable story of survival. my apologies, here is the house speaker john boehner on another big story today. >> the longer the white house slow walks this discussion the closer our economy gets to the fiscal cliff and the more american jobs are placed in

jeopardy. >> good morning the president has said on daily basis that we should be passing a balanced plan, but what we hear from the president is continuing only discussion on one side of the ledger, it has always been about tax rates increases, and nothing about spending, and we insist to say, look, there president, let's talk about a balanced plan, but where are your specifics on the spending cuts? even his own advisers say that any kind of agreement we come to has to deal with the prime drivers of our deficit, which is the spending and, particularly the healthcare entitlement programs. we ask the president to please sit down with us and be specific and let's get that balanced plan. you know, it's interesting that the senate has passed a bill that is a bill calling for increased revenues of

$850 billion. the president continues to say, support that bill, pass that bill. well how is that the case when he continues to say, we also need $1.4 trillion in additional new revenues. there is an inconsistency here. and let's stop playing games. we want to be here for the american people and make sure that we get a balanced solution so that we can start focusing on the one thing that we have seemed to have forgotten and that is it's about jobs and the economy. it's about getting people back to work, making sure their life works again and to finally get us back into the mode of a growing economy. the president seems to be walk being us ever so slowly towards the cliff. we've said we are committed to staying here, we are going to stay here right up until christmas eve, throughout the time and period before the new year, because we want to make sure that we resolve this in an

acceptable way for the american people. martha: there is eric want tore. we just heard from john boehner moments ago, not a whole lot of movement, based on what they just told us. they are even courage the president to give them a little bit more, in terms of spending cuts. they believe that is the juice that will get the economy going, that it's not about taxes it's about an enormous amount of spending that is going on. that's their line and they are sticking witness. more on that coming up. bill: our producer on the hill says peter king was just told by way of john boehner not to make a lot of plans around christmastime. martha: that was evident from eric cantor as all. bill: right after the christmas holiday be ready to work a lot. you have about a week's time. sorry for interrupting you alexis, you were telling a gripping story where you and others were led outside the mall and you were hiding behind a dumpster. did you ever hear gunshots?

did you ever see the gunman? >> i never saw the gunman, but i heard multiple gunshots. it was a continuous stream that lasted probably about 30 seconds, or what seemed like that, and at that point we knew we needed to get out and we did hide behind the dumpster for a few moments and we started hearing sirens and seeing multiple police cars coming to the mall, and then we decided we were still too close to an exit for comfort because we weren't aware of where the gunman was or if he would be exiting at any time. we went into the parking lot and were hiding behind some cars and were able to talk to other people about the situation until we were able to get out of there. bill: i can't imagine what you've been through, and you certainly have a store row to tell. we were told that 10,000 people were inside the mall at this time. at the time of the shooting. >> yes. bill: what have you told your family and friends?

>> yes. well, i've grown up in this area, i know many people that work at this mall, that shop at this mall. like i said i've been here multiple hundreds of times and i knew lots of people that were in the mall at the time, so it was scary making sure i could hear from all of them and making sure they were okay. one of my very close friends actually brushed shoulders with the shaoerts. she was in macy's at the time when he entered and hearing her story about it is really chilling, and i'm thankful that he didn't decide to start shooting sooner because she probably won't be here right now. bill: he was wearing a white mask, had body armor, apparently took his own life with a bullet to the head, and he told those upon entering the food court, "i am the shooter." did you talk to your friend about that? >> she did not tell me that she heard that. she did say that she made eye contact with him, and that he had a look in his eyes she had

never seen before. she did see his gun, and she said it almost looked fake because it was so large, but i think after she and her mom realized what was going on they turned around and exited the mall as quickly as they could. bill: i bet. it is 7:00 in the morning there in portland. did you sleep at all last night? >> i got a few hours of sleep, but, i mean i woke up this morning and continue believe this happened here in my own backyard, in my hometown. i mean you hear about these things happening on the news, and other places in the country, and it doesn't really eupl pocket you until it's here with your loved ones in the area and you're actually there. bill: yeah, that is so well said. how do you make sense of this? how do you put the pieces together? >> i think that it will be hard at first, but clackamas is a very close tight knit community

and i think we'll be able to get over this together and come together and support each other. i'm thankful that not more people were injured, and right now we are just sending our thoughts and prayers to the victims' families and hope the one that is injured in the hospital has a quick recovery. bill: indeed we all do. alexis, thank you, you're a terrific young lady. thank you for sharing your story with us today. >> thank you. bill: apparently this man wasn't running, walking through the food courts, didn't seem to be in much of a hurry. the sheriff will talk at 1:00 earn time, 10:00 there in portland. we'll have that for you. martha: an articulate young lady. a frightening situation for her. they are glad not more people were injured. your harbt goes out to those who lost their lives and families this morning. back in washington as we just saw the die long continues. john boehner telling the house, don't make any holiday folks. as long as the fiscal cliff is approaching ahead.

we have a panel to debate how like light is that a dial might happen any soon, bill, plus th this. [chanting] bill: tempers are hot on fire. controversial right to work law passed in michigan and a top union leader is here live in a moment and will react to all of that. martha: in a will be pretty interesting, stick around for that. a massive gas explosion. look at that car driving flight through it, melted parts of a major interstate. witnesses describe this horrifying scene coming up. >> all of a sudden i mean the christmas -- the ornaments on the tree, my pictures rattled, everything, and then it just -- it sounded -- almost like the end of the world, or like turbine engines.

bill: a major highway reopening

in west virginia after a massive explosion shut it down. check that out. that is a police car driving through the flames. several homes destroyed, interstate 77 is now back open in both directions, and the natural gas line fire melted guardrails, left an 800-foot section baked by the heat, four homes taken out. here are some witnesses describing what they saw. >> a friend of mine told me that they had walked around through there, and that all of the houses were gone. so i hope and pray that there is no loss of life, you know. bill: luckily no one was injured and the cause of the explosion is underway, but look at that home video. martha: back to michigan now where heated prounion protests took a physical turn after a fox news contributor was punched in the face in this crowd. steven crowder spent the day questioning the demonstrators, asking them about the new right

to work law that they opposed and then it got heated and fists started flying. here is what happened. [shouting] >> come on, dude. martha: boy, tempers really running hot in that crowd. the new law that they passed yesterday in michigan that got these folks so fired up, it allows workers to opt out of belonging to a union and to not have to pay the dues if they don't want to be part of the union and they work in a union shot. i'm joined by allison omens who is the director of the alfcio. thank you for joining us today. >> thanks for asking me. martha: why do you think the violence broke out and is it useful to the cause. >> we don't condone any violence in any case. there were thousands of people in mitch ban coming out and

saying that right to work is not the right policy for michigan, and that's what this is really about. people are frustrated and unhappy to this devisive politics is what happened yesterday and what governor snyder signed into law. martha: let's listen to governor snyder and why he wanted to see this passed. here he is. >> this is about freedom to choose, and workers should have the option, if they are seeing value they should be excited to join the union and they should join. if they see no value why should they shut financial resources to something that has no value to them. that is a big part of it, standing up for workers. martha: that is the question. if you work for a company that is unionized and you don't agree with their politics, or you don't agree with the way they do things, why should you automatically get that money taken out of your paycheck whether you like it or not? >> governor snyder sounds like george orwell in this case. people choose every day to be in a union, they choose to come together with their coworkers,

talk with their bosses about pay equity, working conditions, things that matter to individual employees. martha: we know that is true for many people, it's a shrinking number of people. but the question is not that, the question is what if i want to work for a company but i don't want to be in the union, why should i have to pay union dues? why? >> unions are a key vehicle for people to come together and have a voice on the job. what happens when we can do that is we're more powerful to advocate for safe working conditions, fair wages, health carol, all things that are important to working families. that's what the movement is about and that's what governor snyder and the republicans in the legislature took a wack at yesterday. martha: we are talking about freedom to choose, to not have money taken out of your paycheck if you don't think the union is providing that for you. that's what i think he's getting at. he's saying the unions, in his opinion and apparently in other folks too, some other folks because we've seen now 24 states go this way, feel like the union maybe used to do a lot for them

but they are not providing the value that they have to payout of their paycheck for and they say they really don't want to pay it then. >> yeah, what is really important here is that working people come together to have a voice on the job, to advocate for safe working conditions, fair pay. martha: allison you're giving me the same answer every time. forgive me. the traoeuts, i'm asking you why is it that an individual can't opt out? what is wrong with that? what is wrong with that? >> what is wrong with that is that first of all it's not -- you can always -- you don't have to be a union member. but what is really important here. martha: you still have to pay the dues if you don't work in a right to work state, so what is wrong with opting out of paying dues is my question specifically. >> teachers, nursers, firefighters, all of the people who are union members recognize that the union is a way and when everyone invests in that union they are more powerful to advocate for people. martha: you have eudz you you

have indiana, your name. they had a pick up of 13,000 manufacturing jobs that they added when they became a right to work state. michigan lost 7,000 jobs. we have full screens that we can put up on the screen that people who work in right to work states make more money and there is a higher employment rate, lower unemployment right in the right to work states, so make your argument based on those actual facts and specific numbers that show that it's working well for people in those states. >> sure, all match your numbers for mine. working people in a right to work state earn $1,500 when all of the other factors are adjusted than people who are not in a right to work state. according to a study released yesterday by the economic policy institute the right to work status of indiana is not why the jobs came to indiana, and just ask the autoworkers who worked very closely with the big three over the last several years to save the american auto industry,

together working people through their unions and their employers can advocate for good jobs and a good economy for everyone. martha: the numbers are what they are. we know that employment is higher in right to work states, wages are higher in right to work states, which we just showed, and we still haven't answered the very basic question which is, it's all fine, this is -- it shows 49,495 in nonright to work states. and 42,000 465 in right to work states. the employment number is better in the right to work states. what is wrong with somebody opting out. if people enjoy all the benefits that you talk about they should absolutely pay their union dues, but what if they don't want to? >> people can, but what is important -- martha: no they can't. >> the important thing is that union members, individual union

members pay so that people can -- through the union can advocate on their behalf, that is what is really important here, that's why employers and republican legislate yourself and the coch brothers want to weaken that. people need a voice on the job and that's what we are advocating. martha: and if they want it they are absolutely free to have that voice. thank you, really hot topic and we appreciate you coming in. thanks a lot. >> thanks. bill: a man linked to the murder of brian terry faces sentencing today and agent terry's family will be inside that courtroom. they've been committed to putting clients first. helping generations through tough times. good times. never taking a bailout. there when you need them. helping millions of americans over the centuries. the strength of a global financial leader. the heart of a one-to-one relationship. together for your future. ♪

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bill: there is a key suspect involved in the fast and furious scheme set to b to be sentenced in court today. brian terry killed in a shootout on the mexican border two years ago this week.

jaime avila jr. bought some of the guns found at the scene, linked to the gun running sting. terry's family will speak at the man's sentencing. >> this man had the choice not to walk into the gun shops and buy these weapons, but they chose to. they were greedy and benefitted from it. now they are being held accountable in a court of law. bill: you will see shortly how justice is served. william la jeunesse live on that story from the beginning. live today out of l.a. william, good morning. >> reporter: he did not pull the trigger but jaime avila's action led to the death of agent brian terry. the family wants him to serve a maximum sentence. he was a straw buyer hired to buy guns not for himself but for the sinaloa car at the time. he bought several weapons at a phoenix gun store including three ak-47's. he was one of 18 straw buyers in the fast and furious case, each received up to a thousand

dollars from the cartel for every weapon they bought. the question today for the federal judge in arizona does he sentence a veal louisiana for lie and buying and dealing firearms without a license, that typically will get you probation, or does he get a lengthy sentence based on the consequences of his actions? >> he received shopping bags full of cash to go purchase these weapons. they knew exactly where these weapons were going, and the harm that these weapons could do. they chose to ignore all that for greed and for money, and for that they are going to have to pay a severe penalty. >> reporter: initially the u.s. attorney's office barred the terry family from speaking today at the sentencing arguing that the murder and the gun buying were unrelated but the family persisted and prevailed saying that a veal louisiana a initiated a domino affect that killed one man and will others for years to come.

i learned yesterday that two more fast and furious were recovered in sonora mexico on thanksgiving day. 15 of the 20 defendants in this case have pled guilty. sentences range from probation to nine years. we believe a veal louisiana will get probably five, maybe ten years in this case. bill: we'll watch and see what happens inside the courtroom today. martha: we heard moments ago from house speaker john boehner this morning saying that he is hopeful that they'll get a deal on the fiscal cliff, but he also says that the white house's plan is way off the mark in his opinion, so where are we with this. and will anybody get any time off over the christmas poll days? bill: doubt it. investigators at the mall shooting just releasing audio of police responding in realtime, and there is some dramatic material on these tapes. we get reaction from a witness inside the mall when the killing began. >> as soon as i heard more shots happen i knew at that point we needed to lockup and get everybody in the back of the store. [ woman ] ring. ring.

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martha: let's get back too our story now that is so awfully compelling today, tshooting at t happened late yesterday afternoon west coast time in portland, oregon, yesterday. we have new reaction this morning from witnesses who describe a true scene of panic. take a look at this. a cellphone photo of shoppers huddled in the back room of a pet store.

police releasing scanner audio as well as what the officers were seeing as they searched that mall. that is telling as well. listen to this. >> this is at macy's telling me the suspect with us here. i have multiple shell casings and one 1244. i've got another unknown victim east of me. multiple people walking around, and no active indicators going on right now. >> the gun had jammed and there is a mag laying out here that is fully loaded and he said that's the last place he saw him go. he fired about 10 or 15 rounds out here and the gun jammed on him. >> the only description i have for a second suspect is wearing a vendetta type of mask. >> one more towards penny's we have a person we barricade ned addressing room. you've got an innocent in the dressing room. martha: you have to wonder how that turned out and who that was and whether or not the shooter

had already taken his own life. a lot of questions here. joining me on the phone is danny ruiz. he was inside the mall when the gunman opened fire. you must have woken up this morning believing you can't believe you lived through this. right? >> yeah. martha: tell me what happened. what did you do? i know you helped others. tell us your story. >> i just had gotten to the mall and i'd been there for maybe a minute, and the first shot went off, and same reaction as everybody else, thought something had fallen from the ceiling, some loud noise. the second shot happened and then i knew what it was. i started to run from the area i was. i was right under where the shooter was, where he started shooting, so i ran to a different store -- or ran down the middle of the mall and he

left off more rounds. i went into a department store, the back of the store, there was no exit, there was no exit at that level, and i met up with a young couple and their two or three-year-old daughter, and a handicapped individual, and finally was able to get a clear head on just what happened. i then told an employee, a friend of mine that worked there, to go out a staircase to make sure that the exit, emergency exit we were at went outside and not directly back into the mall. i stayed with the couple and kid and waited for my friend to call down and let me know that it was an exit to go outside, and then i let them out the emergency exit. martha: boy.

you were in the macy's, right? we just heard the police scanner and they are talking about walking around that macy's and seeing shell casings on the ground, identifying victims on the ground there. you were on the upper level. you say there was no exit out of that upper level, right? >> i was on the lower level, directly below where he was. um, like a large opening terrace that goes around the upper lev level. from where i was running i actually didn't know if he was on the upper level or the lower level, but i knew he was quite near a central location. martha: we see these images, looking at the video of little kids walking out with their hands up in the air. i mean, you really kept your head about you danny. you called somebody who knew the

lay out of store, ace understand it, correct me if i'm wrong to make sure that the exit that you were headed to was going to get you out, right? >> correct. a friend of mine who worked there, i asked him to go up the staircase before i let the small child and the young family -- before i lead them up there, i didn't want them, you know, led into any danger. martha: once you got outside, what did the family say to you? they must have been very grateful to you for helping th them, guiding them out of there. >> i think people were in shock. people were leaving the mall, so everyone kind of just went there, one way to get to their cars and what not. martha: if they don't know your name i hope they are hearing you telling the story. because that's the guy that got

us out of there alive, and we thank you danny for doing that. what a story. thanks for being with us. i hope the rest of your whole holiday season is a lot calmer and peaceful and thank you so much. take it easy, good to have you with us. >> thank you. martha: bye-bye. bill: clearly shaken. so republican house leaders just wrapped up a news conference a few moments ago and house speaker john boehner saying the white house plan raises taxes, does not tackle spending, does not get at that enormous national debt and that is something his party cannot accept. >> i've said this and you've all heard me say it and and i'm going to say it one more time. we are going to begin to solve our debt problem, and we are not going to be able to solve it by kicking the cans down the road, and doing all the gimmicks that have been done in the past. it's time to address our spending problem. bill: what about that gretchen hamlin, and alan colmes. happy holidays. merry christmas, whatever

applies. good morning to both of you. peter king says john boehner said do not make plans for the holiday. be prepared to work between chris misand ne miss and new years a lot. >> they are nowhere close. the president is doing a disservice to the american people by treating taxes as a one-thing execution to what is ailing our sanity right now. this is about spending. it's what got us into this mess in the first place, and the president is not even willing to put a plan and the table that addresses that. he's wanting to play a small ball issue of small tax increases that will just barely even pay for one yore's deficit. bill year oops deficit. bill year's deficit. bill: i

>> i have to address what gretchen just said. it's not true the president didn't have spending cuts and plan. he signed the budget control act and offered a five year -- >> that he is trying to undue. >> excuse me. he offered a five-year freeze on discretionary nonsecurity spending. he does have plans on the table to. say he only wants tax cuts as the only way of solving the deficit problem is just not true. bill: if you don't cut, now where we'll be in four years. >> let's look at president's record. bill: 20 trillion is where we go. alan do you believe like gretchen believes that they are nowhere close. >> i have no idea. i don't know why john boehner is negotiating this in public. he had a private meeting with the president last week, they spoke by phone sunday night. today he gets out and says he's slow walk it, why is he doing it in public rather than dealing directly with the president and bad-mouthing the white house and saying the president is not really negotiating in good faith basically is what john boehner is saying. bill: maybe that is the case.

>> why say that publicly when you're trying to come to a deal with somebody on the other side. bill: that's a fair point. what about that if true. >> let's look at president's record quickly. he's had four years of trillion dollar deficits. he hasn't even had a budget in place. >> not true. >> this president has not done anything to get our fiscal house in order. >> that is not true. that is just not true. >> it is true. >> he's offered to cut -- >> let's be clear by his cuts. his cuts are for five and ten years from now. we can't even make cuts that he said would happen in a year. on sequester he said it wasn't going to happen. >> you keep stating an untruth. the fact is the president has offered cuts, he signed the budget control act, he's offered to cut money to drug mayors,. bill: hey, hey, hey, gretchen what did the budget control act do? >> the budget control act basically set a super committee in place. bill: that one, got it. >> it failed, once it failed. bill: you saw where that went.

john boehner says if you give the white house what it wants you'll see red as far as the eye. th >> the other thing the president has done is he insisted he wanted to go back to the bush tax rate on the super rich the top 2%, to 39%, he's retkaoeusd it to a 2 point increase rather than a 4 point increase. to say that the president hasn't negotiated in good faith or not come up with specific proposals is not true. bill: i don't know what you guys are doing on december 30th but don't go far, okay, or even into january. alan, thank you. >> this falls on the president. bill: gretchen thank you. see you later. martha: the air force has launched a super secret space rocket with a top secret classified cargo aboard on this really cool looking robt, so wharocket, so what is going on with this ship? we'll do wild speculation to try to figure it out. we'll tell you somebody who does know a little something about

it, coming up. ♪ ♪

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to find out more, request your free decision guide. call or go online today. after all, when you're going the distance, it's nice to have the experience and commitment to go along with you. keep dreaming. keep doing. go long. >> a mysterious military space plane launched yesterday out of cape canaveral, florida, they have been keeping the mission a big secret. retired major general dale miros was with the u.s. air force, a former chief information officer for the intelligence community which is why they don't give out a lot of information, so that's interesting. good to have you with us, sir, good morning. >> hi, martha, how are you? martha: i'm doing quite well. what we are hearing is that it's going to be highly useful for surveillance and reconnaissance and that it will be more durable, right? >> yes, i think so. the thing to remember with this is i doubt that there is

anything operational on this particular aircraft. its designation is x37b, the x means that it's experimental which means that it's still in research and development. martha: talk to me a little pitt about what they would hope to phr*eurb with somethin accomplish with something like this. because it's been compared to the satellites that we are using for intelligence that burn up when they re-enter the atmosphere. >> right, there are three phases to it. first is can they launch it quickly and be responsive, that evaluation has probably already taken place. then it's beyond orbit piece, can it go-between different orbi tb bitip where it needs to go, and then return back to eurt. martha: if it can return it would be like the space shuttle model that was very effective in terms of ultimately getting the space station built. if i can go back and forth it

will be less expensive and more efficient i guess, right? >> absolutely. the idea of space planes has been around for a longtime. the first space plane flew back in the 60s. it was manned of course, and this is another version of a space plane but unmanned. martha: general, does this give you increased confidence? we know that the space program has been curtailed a lot of people would like it to be fund ned a stronger way. we know that we are facing a lot of defense cuts, especially if we go off of this fiscal cliff. is this the kind of thing that you are glad to see money going into? >> absolutely. the launch vehicle is called an expendable launch vehicle and it was specifically developed to be a low a lower cost. the idea of getting something up into space is usually a very strong proposition and very, very expensive much. so programs like this look to reduce that cost and also make us more agile in space. martha: we saw this north korea

launch that happened. a lot of people thought it wouldn't take place until the end of december, that's what they said and that it might not succeed, which it appears it did. would he this kind of technology give us a better sense of what is going on 0 on the ground in places like that? >> as you know we have many overhead platforms that do various series of missions and this would add to our capability going forward. martha: general, thank you. pleasure to have you with us today. >> thank you. bill: one took off from california a few years ago and flew around for a year and a half. who he now. jon scott is coming up eleven minutes away. what is happening. jon: the speaker of the house john boehner says it is going to be a long month. he's warning lawmakers, be prepared to spend christmas in washington. more on the new developments on the fiscal cliff. plus north korea successfully launches a rocket, cheers erupt in yeongpyeong, another escalation in the korean nuclear

crisis. two of our guests joining us say this is a very big deal. hearings underway on human growth hormone and the nfl, what will the league decide in we'll go in depth today. bill: see you then at the top of the hour. have a look at this. will you? 33 of these found by border patrol miles from mexico. martha: it's a great store row. bill: you know what they are? martha: i do, but people should stick around to find out, pretty interesting. we'll be right back. table till you finish your vegetables. [ clock ticking ] [ male announcer ] there's a better way... v8 v-fusion. vegetable nutrition they need, fruit taste they love. could've had a v8. or...try kids boxes!

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martha: a new battle in the drug war along our border. smugglers have come up with another creative way to get the drugs into the country. they are using a canyon. 33 cans of marijuana were found in a field, scattered around the field where the colorado river crosses the u.s. mexico border. they believe that the cans,

ingenious, right, were launched about 500 feet into the united states using canyons like they they shoot t-shirts out at concerts. 85 pounds of pot, 42 through dollars worth, i don't think they'll see that money. bill: they try the submarine and this little bad by over here. martha: a novel attempt. she should find another way to make money, different line of business. bill: more than just a t t-shirt inside that canyon. martha: that is for sure. bill: we have major developments unfolding in the middle east. we are learning the opposition inee skwreuplt is urging a no vote on the upcoming major referendum about a week away. greg palkot streaming live out of cairo. what is behind the strategy of a no vote on this? >> reporter: they are coming out that way, they decided to participate. they don't like this constitution at all. right now it is calm in cairo, but yesterday we saw protests

for and against egyptian president mohammed morsi, and the planned referendum about that controversial constitution. voting is set to begin on saturday. due to a shortage of judges used to monitor the polling some of them have called this document an insult, so they are boycotting it. it's extended to a second saturday december 22nd. the opposition to morsi which has branded this coons taougs islamist and none inclusive will boycott it. they said they wanted to participate today in a national unity meeting which had been called for by the military. that has been called off today, apparently mohammed morsi didn't want it, bill. bill: what is the expected outcome of this vote, greg, read twaep between the lines. >> all indication is that mohammed morsi wants to push it forward because he thinks he can win. his muslim brotherhood party and allies won the majority of votes

in the last elections here. they have the best grass roots effort, they had the best ground game, and the opposition is divided. they are split between their tactics, the motivations, between the secularists, between the old hold officer from the hosni mubaraker a. the fact remains, bill that this constitution is not well thought out and has not been well explained to the public, and that bodes not too well for the future here politically. there could be a lot of turbulent times ahead. bill: it will be something to watch. thanks, greg palkot, good to have you on the ground there. back in cairo for us. martha: investigators are now searching a locked-down oregon mall after that deadly shooting at the height of the holiday season. authorities have promised that they will release the shooter's name. we were told that a little while ago on "america's newsroom." that will come out about an our away. we are live with the latest. (announcer) when subaru owners look in the mirror,

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